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Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

The World's Unofficial National Power Poll for WAKA

Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Lost_Sage » October 7th, 2008, 4:43 am

Dear readers -- my apologies for the very long hiatus on the Poll. If you haven't noticed lately, the economy is not so great. And one of my coworkers got canned a few weeks ago, and I am now stuck with almost all of her caseload, and that last week was my review. On top of that, NY Star (starting season 3 as president, season 4 unofficially), which is our biggest kickball league in the Big Apple, is only a few weeks away and (surprise) there are still plenty of unresolved issues (re: no bar, registration not closed, shirts not ordered).

So all of this means I've been hard pressed to check in with the message board as often as I would like. I'm hoping to tunnel myself out from under this huge pile of to-dos soon ... and to do a much better job of doing so (like actually waking up early for work and finally convincing my workplace to give me a laptop from which I can answer e-mails and update databases from home).

The plan: get this post-FC poll out of the way first. I intend this poll to be a snapshot of the top teams right after FC. Then, get a fall poll out by week's end (Thursday, says the optimist in me; Saturday, says the pessimist) second. Many teams do not play in the fall, so this poll will look very different, and it will take into account a lot of developments since then.

Finally - what I considered in terms of specific statistics:

W-L, Run %, quality wins, quality losses, and level of advancement at Founders Cup
Division Strength of Schedule
Tournament Strength of Schedule (counting a team's tourney performance from 2007-on)

A word of caution to all teams that stayed at home on Labor Day, or throughout this year's tourney season. It will be increasingly hard to justify a ranking against teams that should be rewarded for playing tougher competition and gaining valuable experience in tourney play where the opponents are not every day foes. We rely on the major tourneys (that, admittedly, require travel) and the regional ones (which don't - so kudos to NorCal, SoCal, and VA Beach) to get much better windows onto a team's real mettle on the toughest stages.

In the end, like all polls, this one is not perfect. It doesn't determine who's holding a trophy at the end of a Saturday - the best, most consistent play does. What I hope it does is continue to spark a healthy discourse on the growth of the game, and to encourage a thriving tourney scene (at least 4 tourneys next year, between Miami, Tidewater, DC, and Founders Cup) that provides great competition and great camarderie.

Without further ado:

1 Frosty Balls (VA Recess) - Top of the mountain, and an obvious choice for #1. Who remembers their first tourney in Richmond in 2006 -- anyone? They've been around longer than folks think, and a powerful D anchored a well-deserved title.

2 Meatballs (FL West Palm/FL Beach) - In my opinion, the Meatballs don't have to prove to anyone any more that they're elite. An aggressive offense and stellar interior defense led the white shirts all the way to the FC finals in their official tourney debut, the best showing of all the SoFla teams.

3 Hey Whoa (NY Gotham) - A tough semifinal loss to a game Frosty Balls team, but no less of a doubt as to lime green's status as one of the top sides in the game.

4 Kick Asphalts (VA Dominion) - Still relevant, still in the discussion of the game's best. A tough loss to the Meatballs, but more fodder than anything to retool and reload for future tourneys.

5 Screw the Team (FL Riptide) - A raw deal in terms of drawing the Group of Death. But the talent is still there, and future iterations of this franchise will continue to anchor a dangerous Florida contigent for seasons to come.

6 Young Guns (FL West Palm/FL Beach) - Dominated a pool that we thought would give them more trouble, but fell short against KA. Still as fast and potent an offense as there is in the tourney scene.

7 Menace 2 Sobriety (DC Rock Creek, DC Memorial) - After a testy group of death at the 07 Open, M2S shut out its pool and notched another quality win in the knockout round before dropping a quarterfinal game to the Meatballs. Look for the Menaces to carry the torch for DC squads from here on out.

8 Off in Public (DC Liberty, DC Memorial) - Very tough to place anyone that didn't come to FC. Hard to count out a storied franchise like OIP; hard to tell if they are reloading not just for division play but for a return to the tourney scene.

9 Blue Balls (VA Recess, VA Shore) - Also a team you might not know to have 3 years of tourney presence, and one you feel could break through even more on the tourney scene next year. We'll see if the much-heralded additions get them there, with the first test being Shore's fall.

10 Dumpster Fire (NY Freedom) - A gutsy, year-long journey, with 4 tourney stops, pays off with a sweep of pool play that included a monster win against the defending champs.

11 We Kick Your Balls (AZ Valley) - We officially welcome our friends from the desert to the Poll. We hope it's a great sign of things to come, and that they and Ludicrous become mainstays of the tourney crowd.

12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.

13 Gonzo (VA Alexandria, VA Arlington) - It is hard to think this stalwart in the tourney scene might have made its last tilt in current form. No one has set the bar higher over the past 3 years in terms of travelling for any and all challenges.

14 Sofa King Good (CA Hollywood) - Another official welcome to SKG, for an impressive first national tourney, and for proving the Poll right about the development of competitive ball in SoCal.

15 Best Coast Ballers (CA Gold Rush) - NorCal finally has its torchbearer. Hard to miss pink shirts playing quality ball and causing lots of playful mischief in Vegas.

16 Gym Class All Stars (DC Monument) - Yes, this seems low for a team comprised of lots of folks from squads listed above here. Yes, all signs point to GCAS' tourney days being long over. But with DC/NoVa itching to rise to the challenge from other regions, never say never. And sometimes GCAS' fierce division rivals rise to the occasion and catch 'em napping.

Watch List

DWAKP (FL Beach) - Beach has caught up to the Drinkers since their magical run of 2007. With the loss to D-Fire, so have other squads. DWAKP may have lost a step, but they're still running, and last time I checked, no other Florida squad has hoisted a Founders' Cup.

Champs Like It Tickled (MA Minutemen, MA Ironsides) - CLIT shows it's still a competitive team. We hope they'll continue to grace the tourney scene with its presence and drag some Beantown brethren with them.

Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.

Ballers and Shot Callers (DC Capital) - We're fans of BSC's passion to defend the Ancient One's pride, and we hope more teams from the Association's founding division follow in the footsteps of their showing in Vegas.

Riff Raff (FL Beach, FL Riptide) - We would love to see the Floridians in pink make their debut on a national stage and shake off their playoff jitters.

nWo (DC Liberty) - The ballers in black were strong in a DC spring scene that has been a little down in recent years.

Super Bad (CA Riptide) - A tough-nosed team that could easily break through in future tourneys and raise Riptide's profile as a more elite squad in an improving region.

3rd Base Is Overrated (DC Lightning) - A proud squad hoping to carry the banner for future team's from the nationa's capital. A season in one of the DC power divisions might be a good tune-up for a tourney run in 2009.

Ludicrous Speed (AZ Fire) - Tough to draw a group of death and show off the desert talent. The close win against WGTR didn't help, even as the close loss to STT was encouraging. We'll still keep on eye on the top of the roost in Arizona's oldest division.

Valley Girls (CA Studio) - The talent is there, but the lack of depth caused the Gals two disappointing losses in pool play. But certainly a squad that could anchor a great SoCal presence on the tourney scene, both on the field and off.

Kung Fu Grip (CA Tinseltown) - We expected a tad better from a #10 ranking, and hopefully the experience at FC and the SoCal tourney plants the seed for future tourney incarnations.

Real Talk (CA Surf City) - A surprise showing from a peskier than expected division. The folks from Huntington are part of a huge mass of SoCal teams that could break through.

Ridiculously Good Looking (CA Dogtown) - Kind of a middling showing for the representative of SoCal's #3 power conference. We're hoping it was more of an off day than an indication of a weak (and not a strong) parity in Venice Beach.

K2 (CA Crown) - Credit where it's due to making it to the knockout round. But drawing the "pillow fight" pool isn't going to turn many heads of Poll watchers.
CA: Gold Rush (S05/F05), Golden Gate (S05/F05), Yerba Buena (F05-06-07/S06-07)
NY: Big Apple (S06), Central (S10), Freedom (S06-07-08-09-10/U09-10), Gotham (S08/U08), Liberty (S07-08-09), L.I. (S05), Recess (F08), River (U10), Star (F05-06-07-08-09/U10), Victory (U10)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby J Salt » October 7th, 2008, 5:55 am

Great work as always, Shane. 5:43 am? Did you wake up to write this or stay up all night?
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby will i am » October 7th, 2008, 6:20 am

Thanks, Shane!
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Jimmybeans2 » October 7th, 2008, 7:16 am

Great Job Shane,

One thing though.....

There is no more Screw the Team (I believe) and the Young Guns have retired because our famous Coach Riley might be moving :(
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby xxxjboyxxx » October 7th, 2008, 7:49 am

Appreciate the hard work and dedication you have in putting up a power poll.

Job well done....Shane
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Kickbot » October 7th, 2008, 7:59 am

Thank you, Shane. This poll's got me fired up for another year of tournament kickball.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby C-meth » October 7th, 2008, 8:14 am

Thanks Shane! :HW:

I'm glad two NY teams can represent in the top 10!
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Jimmybeans2 » October 7th, 2008, 8:18 am

I'm just surpirse the TRICKY BUNNIES weren't on that list.....

Riff Raff over the Tricky Bunnies???

TB's are the best damn team wearing Pink!
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby 'Da_MAULER » October 7th, 2008, 8:20 am

Shane,

I was glad to see 2 of my teams represented but no HTKC?!?! What were you thinking? jk
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby JellyDogg » October 7th, 2008, 8:24 am

Great job, Shane.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Jeffreytiki » October 7th, 2008, 8:38 am

Lost_Sage wrote:Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.


It's only a matter of time before half the team is on social security ;)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby J Salt » October 7th, 2008, 8:41 am

Valley Girls (CA Studio) - The talent is there, but the lack of depth caused the Gals two disappointing losses in pool play. But certainly a squad that could anchor a great SoCal presence on the tourney scene, both on the field and off.

That loss to Best Damn Sports show probably didn't help their ranking... :HW:
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Karl » October 7th, 2008, 9:05 am

thanks, shane.

see you all again in january.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Lost_Sage » October 7th, 2008, 9:13 am

Thanks everyone for the kind words. As I mentioned earlier, for this poll, I aimed to take a snapshot of things right after FC. Fall poll (and future poll) will take into account many of the things people have mentioned ...
CA: Gold Rush (S05/F05), Golden Gate (S05/F05), Yerba Buena (F05-06-07/S06-07)
NY: Big Apple (S06), Central (S10), Freedom (S06-07-08-09-10/U09-10), Gotham (S08/U08), Liberty (S07-08-09), L.I. (S05), Recess (F08), River (U10), Star (F05-06-07-08-09/U10), Victory (U10)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby JellyDogg » October 7th, 2008, 9:53 am

Lost_Sage wrote:12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.
There were 4 FWB players on the TKO team (plus a former FWBer). Also, we did beat Gonzo there. :)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Lost_Sage » October 7th, 2008, 10:08 am

Remind me what the rules of that last game were again ... :geek:

JellyDogg wrote:
Lost_Sage wrote:12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.
There were 4 FWB players on the TKO team (plus a former FWBer). Also, we did beat Gonzo there. :)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby OscOnYourFace » October 7th, 2008, 10:11 am

Thanks for the poll shane... I had almost given up ;)

CCSE (DCRoyal) is worthy of a ranking / watch list.

The current version is a hybrid of the old CCSE, HUNG, Ballers and Shot Callers. I reffed two of their games and didn't see a bad player in the lineup... I think they're 34-0 in 3 games. They're far far better than the CCSE teams of old (which were always pretty good). I guess we'll see how they matchup to a fun but still pretty good version of HTKC week 7
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby JellyDogg » October 7th, 2008, 10:14 am

Lost_Sage wrote:Remind me what the rules of that last game were again ... :geek:

JellyDogg wrote:
Lost_Sage wrote:12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.
There were 4 FWB players on the TKO team (plus a former FWBer). Also, we did beat Gonzo there. :)
How about if I instead remind you that we played them twice, and the first time we were both still very much alive for single elim, and it was this game I was referring to... :geek: 8)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby FearTheFro » October 7th, 2008, 10:15 am

Lost_Sage wrote:Remind me what the rules of that last game were again ... :geek:

JellyDogg wrote:
Lost_Sage wrote:12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.
There were 4 FWB players on the TKO team (plus a former FWBer). Also, we did beat Gonzo there. :)


Pretty much the same as Hey Whoa's 2nd "game" against Crazy Kickers. :geek:

I think Mark was referring to the "real" game against Gonzo when we really beat them 2-1.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby TheBlondeBomber » October 7th, 2008, 10:55 am

No one ever recognizes Awkward Mornings - DC, even on the watch list....albeit not a tourney team ;)

4 seasons (DC Patriot F06, DC Adam's Morgan S07, DC Victory F07, NAKID S08)
Overall record of about 32-2-3
4 title games
3 championships


And going into season 5, we sit atop 1st place, undefeated.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, still #1 in flipcup :rofl:
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Daiquiri Dematas » October 7th, 2008, 10:59 am

Jimmybeans2 wrote:Great Job Shane,

One thing though.....

There is no more Screw the Team (I believe) and the Young Guns have retired because our famous Coach Riley might be moving :(


Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Daiquiri Dematas » October 7th, 2008, 11:01 am

Lost_Sage wrote:Dear readers -- my apologies for the very long hiatus on the Poll. If you haven't noticed lately, the economy is not so great. And one of my coworkers got canned a few weeks ago, and I am now stuck with almost all of her caseload, and that last week was my review. On top of that, NY Star (starting season 3 as president, season 4 unofficially), which is our biggest kickball league in the Big Apple, is only a few weeks away and (surprise) there are still plenty of unresolved issues (re: no bar, registration not closed, shirts not ordered).

So all of this means I've been hard pressed to check in with the message board as often as I would like. I'm hoping to tunnel myself out from under this huge pile of to-dos soon ... and to do a much better job of doing so (like actually waking up early for work and finally convincing my workplace to give me a laptop from which I can answer e-mails and update databases from home).

The plan: get this post-FC poll out of the way first. I intend this poll to be a snapshot of the top teams right after FC. Then, get a fall poll out by week's end (Thursday, says the optimist in me; Saturday, says the pessimist) second. Many teams do not play in the fall, so this poll will look very different, and it will take into account a lot of developments since then.

Finally - what I considered in terms of specific statistics:

W-L, Run %, quality wins, quality losses, and level of advancement at Founders Cup
Division Strength of Schedule
Tournament Strength of Schedule (counting a team's tourney performance from 2007-on)

A word of caution to all teams that stayed at home on Labor Day, or throughout this year's tourney season. It will be increasingly hard to justify a ranking against teams that should be rewarded for playing tougher competition and gaining valuable experience in tourney play where the opponents are not every day foes. We rely on the major tourneys (that, admittedly, require travel) and the regional ones (which don't - so kudos to NorCal, SoCal, and VA Beach) to get much better windows onto a team's real mettle on the toughest stages.

In the end, like all polls, this one is not perfect. It doesn't determine who's holding a trophy at the end of a Saturday - the best, most consistent play does. What I hope it does is continue to spark a healthy discourse on the growth of the game, and to encourage a thriving tourney scene (at least 4 tourneys next year, between Miami, Tidewater, DC, and Founders Cup) that provides great competition and great camarderie.

Without further ado:

1 Frosty Balls (VA Recess) - Top of the mountain, and an obvious choice for #1. Who remembers their first tourney in Richmond in 2006 -- anyone? They've been around longer than folks think, and a powerful D anchored a well-deserved title.

2 Meatballs (FL West Palm/FL Beach) - In my opinion, the Meatballs don't have to prove to anyone any more that they're elite. An aggressive offense and stellar interior defense led the white shirts all the way to the FC finals in their official tourney debut, the best showing of all the SoFla teams.

3 Hey Whoa (NY Gotham) - A tough semifinal loss to a game Frosty Balls team, but no less of a doubt as to lime green's status as one of the top sides in the game.

4 Kick Asphalts (VA Dominion) - Still relevant, still in the discussion of the game's best. A tough loss to the Meatballs, but more fodder than anything to retool and reload for future tourneys.

5 Screw the Team (FL Riptide) - A raw deal in terms of drawing the Group of Death. But the talent is still there, and future iterations of this franchise will continue to anchor a dangerous Florida contigent for seasons to come.

6 Young Guns (FL West Palm/FL Beach) - Dominated a pool that we thought would give them more trouble, but fell short against KA. Still as fast and potent an offense as there is in the tourney scene.

7 Menace 2 Sobriety (DC Rock Creek, DC Memorial) - After a testy group of death at the 07 Open, M2S shut out its pool and notched another quality win in the knockout round before dropping a quarterfinal game to the Meatballs. Look for the Menaces to carry the torch for DC squads from here on out.

8 Off in Public (DC Liberty, DC Memorial) - Very tough to place anyone that didn't come to FC. Hard to count out a storied franchise like OIP; hard to tell if they are reloading not just for division play but for a return to the tourney scene.

9 Blue Balls (VA Recess, VA Shore) - Also a team you might not know to have 3 years of tourney presence, and one you feel could break through even more on the tourney scene next year. We'll see if the much-heralded additions get them there, with the first test being Shore's fall.

10 Dumpster Fire (NY Freedom) - A gutsy, year-long journey, with 4 tourney stops, pays off with a sweep of pool play that included a monster win against the defending champs.

11 We Kick Your Balls (AZ Valley) - We officially welcome our friends from the desert to the Poll. We hope it's a great sign of things to come, and that they and Ludicrous become mainstays of the tourney crowd.

12 Friends With Benefits (VA Dominion) - Another very, very tough team to place. Hard to tell whether it would be the team that did well at the 07 Open and is hanging tougher with KA these days or the one that came away from Tidewater without a quality win.

13 Gonzo (VA Alexandria, VA Arlington) - It is hard to think this stalwart in the tourney scene might have made its last tilt in current form. No one has set the bar higher over the past 3 years in terms of travelling for any and all challenges.

14 Sofa King Good (CA Hollywood) - Another official welcome to SKG, for an impressive first national tourney, and for proving the Poll right about the development of competitive ball in SoCal.

15 Best Coast Ballers (CA Gold Rush) - NorCal finally has its torchbearer. Hard to miss pink shirts playing quality ball and causing lots of playful mischief in Vegas.

16 Gym Class All Stars (DC Monument) - Yes, this seems low for a team comprised of lots of folks from squads listed above here. Yes, all signs point to GCAS' tourney days being long over. But with DC/NoVa itching to rise to the challenge from other regions, never say never. And sometimes GCAS' fierce division rivals rise to the occasion and catch 'em napping.

Watch List

DWAKP (FL Beach) - Beach has caught up to the Drinkers since their magical run of 2007. With the loss to D-Fire, so have other squads. DWAKP may have lost a step, but they're still running, and last time I checked, no other Florida squad has hoisted a Founders' Cup.

Champs Like It Tickled (MA Minutemen, MA Ironsides) - CLIT shows it's still a competitive team. We hope they'll continue to grace the tourney scene with its presence and drag some Beantown brethren with them.

Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.

Ballers and Shot Callers (DC Capital) - We're fans of BSC's passion to defend the Ancient One's pride, and we hope more teams from the Association's founding division follow in the footsteps of their showing in Vegas.

Riff Raff (FL Beach, FL Riptide) - We would love to see the Floridians in pink make their debut on a national stage and shake off their playoff jitters.

nWo (DC Liberty) - The ballers in black were strong in a DC spring scene that has been a little down in recent years.

Super Bad (CA Riptide) - A tough-nosed team that could easily break through in future tourneys and raise Riptide's profile as a more elite squad in an improving region.

3rd Base Is Overrated (DC Lightning) - A proud squad hoping to carry the banner for future team's from the nationa's capital. A season in one of the DC power divisions might be a good tune-up for a tourney run in 2009.

Ludicrous Speed (AZ Fire) - Tough to draw a group of death and show off the desert talent. The close win against WGTR didn't help, even as the close loss to STT was encouraging. We'll still keep on eye on the top of the roost in Arizona's oldest division.

Valley Girls (CA Studio) - The talent is there, but the lack of depth caused the Gals two disappointing losses in pool play. But certainly a squad that could anchor a great SoCal presence on the tourney scene, both on the field and off.

Kung Fu Grip (CA Tinseltown) - We expected a tad better from a #10 ranking, and hopefully the experience at FC and the SoCal tourney plants the seed for future tourney incarnations.

Real Talk (CA Surf City) - A surprise showing from a peskier than expected division. The folks from Huntington are part of a huge mass of SoCal teams that could break through.

Ridiculously Good Looking (CA Dogtown) - Kind of a middling showing for the representative of SoCal's #3 power conference. We're hoping it was more of an off day than an indication of a weak (and not a strong) parity in Venice Beach.

K2 (CA Crown) - Credit where it's due to making it to the knockout round. But drawing the "pillow fight" pool isn't going to turn many heads of Poll watchers.


Great job as always Shane, I hope 2009 brings more TI Squaring than 2008 did. :HW:
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Fresh » October 7th, 2008, 11:11 am

C-meth H. Whoa wrote:Thanks Shane! :HW:

I'm glad two NY teams can represent in the top 10!


ditto on all accounts.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Paniky 69er » October 7th, 2008, 11:23 am

Lost_Sage wrote:Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.

Just a heads up on how deep Shore Division is this season, Tiki has already lost twice and they haven't even played Blue Balls yet. Ball Breakers (tied Naughty Balls in the finals for Southside Finals in the Spring) and LetsDoDis have really stepped it up this season. LDD has two forfeits already because they were one girl short on a night that they had a double-header, but they're definitely a very, very tough team.

Also, I think We Kick Your Balls out of AZ is probably ranked a little too low. They were a very athletic and technically sound team. They're definitely Top 10 worthy.

I'm also not sure three FL teams deserve to be in the Top 10 when only one of the Florida teams advanced to the quarterfinals. Understandably, after Boston, FL had four teams in the Top 10 and two of them duked it out for the Founders' Cup trophy. I simply don't think FL is as talented as we're giving them credit for this year. Four FL teams were picked as one of the eight "Favorites." Only one of those four teams made it to the quarterfinals, and only two FL teams made it out of pool play. Last year I think you could justify ranking so many FL teams high, this year the balance of power has clearly shifted.

By contrast, only two DC teams made it on the "Favorites" list, but three DC teams made it to the quarterfinals. Likewise, Hampton Roads had no teams on the "Favorites" list and sent two teams to the quarterfinals--one being the eventual champion. I think the Power Poll should reflect the change in power back to the NOVA/DC and Hampton Roads areas with better representation from both areas.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Lost_Sage » October 7th, 2008, 11:31 am

Trey - it was definitely tough to hold to that "snapshot" view of the post-FC poll and not consider what the fall poll will look like, especially considering what's happened in Shore (additions to BB, emergence of the Breakers, re-emergence of LDD) and Memorial (a healthy 4-team race where the frontunners could cannibalize each other, and their W-L/RA in the process). Also, many teams may be trying on the ensemble wardrobe for size (we're certainly seeing that in Riptide, look at NMY), retooling (DF), or perhaps going back to the drawing board in a big way (Gonzo). Now imagine considering similar phenomena nation-wide, and it was easy to make a decision to split the polls into two.

Believe me, I wanted to rank WKYB higher. I wanted a second AZ team to make a good showing to prove that the state had enough to justify a higher division SOS (and possibly 1 or 2 spots higher). (Compare that to SoCal, for which SKG was the class of the field, but you felt like teams such as Superbad are a breakthrough away from the rankings, and where we can name at least 4 divisions that consistently produce at least Watch List-quality teams.) But it was tough to ignore the tourney experience of the teams I ultimately put ahead of them. WKYB had a fairly easy pool, although I did give them credit for the win in the round of 16 and the competitive loss in the quarters to the eventual champs. I originally had them in the first 8, but the SOS factor ultimately led me to place them in the second 8.

Always Right wrote:
Lost_Sage wrote:Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.

Just a heads up on how deep Shore Division is this season, Tiki has already lost twice and they haven't even played Blue Balls yet. Ball Breakers (tied Naughty Balls in the finals for Southside Finals in the Spring) and LetsDoDis have really stepped it up this season. LDD has two forfeits already because they were one girl short on a night that they had a double-header, but they're definitely a very, very tough team.

Also, I think We Kick Your Balls out of AZ is probably ranked a little too low. They were a very athletic and technically sound team. They're definitely Top 10 worthy.

I'm also not sure three FL teams deserve to be in the Top 10 when only one of the Florida teams advanced to the quarterfinals. Understandably, after Boston, FL had four teams in the Top 10 and two of them duked it out for the Founders' Cup trophy. I simply don't think FL is as talented as we're giving them credit for this year. Four FL teams were picked as one of the eight "Favorites." Only one of those four teams made it to the quarterfinals, and only two FL teams made it out of pool play. Last year I think you could justify ranking so many FL teams high, this year the balance of power has clearly shifted.

By contrast, only two DC teams made it on the "Favorites" list, but three DC teams made it to the quarterfinals. Likewise, Hampton Roads had no teams on the "Favorites" list and sent two teams to the quarterfinals--one being the eventual champion. I think the Power Poll should reflect the change in power back to the NOVA/DC and Hampton Roads areas with better representation from both areas.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Daiquiri Dematas » October 7th, 2008, 11:33 am

There is a reason No Means Yes is a WAKA team now.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Fresh » October 7th, 2008, 11:37 am

This weekend i told a friend about No Means Yes and he was like thats the defintion of rap you know... how is it possible that you and your kickball friends are not all serving 10-15 years in the state pen. ... hmm IDK i guess we are smooth criminals
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Fresh » October 7th, 2008, 11:40 am

shane-o, my love, my heart, my life, stop justifying your power poll... your initial post was clearly detailed and well writen. you done good. just do what i do and ignore people that question your system.

Lost_Sage wrote:Trey - it was definitely tough to hold to that "snapshot" view of the post-FC poll and not consider what the fall poll will look like, especially considering what's happened in Shore (additions to BB, emergence of the Breakers, re-emergence of LDD) and Memorial (a healthy 4-team race where the frontunners could cannibalize each other, and their W-L/RA in the process). Also, many teams may be trying on the ensemble wardrobe for size (we're certainly seeing that in Riptide, look at NMY), retooling (DF), or perhaps going back to the drawing board in a big way (Gonzo). Now imagine considering similar phenomena nation-wide, and it was easy to make a decision to split the polls into two.

Believe me, I wanted to rank WKYB higher. I wanted a second AZ team to make a good showing to prove that the state had enough to justify a higher division SOS (and possibly 1 or 2 spots higher). (Compare that to SoCal, for which SKG was the class of the field, but you felt like teams such as Superbad are a breakthrough away from the rankings, and where we can name at least 4 divisions that consistently produce at least Watch List-quality teams.) But it was tough to ignore the tourney experience of the teams I ultimately put ahead of them. WKYB had a fairly easy pool, although I did give them credit for the win in the round of 16 and the competitive loss in the quarters to the eventual champs. I originally had them in the first 8, but the SOS factor ultimately led me to place them in the second 8.

Always Right wrote:
Lost_Sage wrote:Tiki Titans (VA Shore) - We get the feelings it's only a matter of time before the Tidewater's original tourney team recaptures its current form.

Just a heads up on how deep Shore Division is this season, Tiki has already lost twice and they haven't even played Blue Balls yet. Ball Breakers (tied Naughty Balls in the finals for Southside Finals in the Spring) and LetsDoDis have really stepped it up this season. LDD has two forfeits already because they were one girl short on a night that they had a double-header, but they're definitely a very, very tough team.

Also, I think We Kick Your Balls out of AZ is probably ranked a little too low. They were a very athletic and technically sound team. They're definitely Top 10 worthy.

I'm also not sure three FL teams deserve to be in the Top 10 when only one of the Florida teams advanced to the quarterfinals. Understandably, after Boston, FL had four teams in the Top 10 and two of them duked it out for the Founders' Cup trophy. I simply don't think FL is as talented as we're giving them credit for this year. Four FL teams were picked as one of the eight "Favorites." Only one of those four teams made it to the quarterfinals, and only two FL teams made it out of pool play. Last year I think you could justify ranking so many FL teams high, this year the balance of power has clearly shifted.

By contrast, only two DC teams made it on the "Favorites" list, but three DC teams made it to the quarterfinals. Likewise, Hampton Roads had no teams on the "Favorites" list and sent two teams to the quarterfinals--one being the eventual champion. I think the Power Poll should reflect the change in power back to the NOVA/DC and Hampton Roads areas with better representation from both areas.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby *Angel* » October 7th, 2008, 11:42 am

Fresh wrote:shane-o, my love, my heart, my life, stop justifying your power poll... your initial post was clearly detailed and well writen. you done good. just do what i do and ignore people that question your system.


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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby 'Da_MAULER » October 7th, 2008, 11:43 am

I'm shocked there hasn't been a Trey vs Dematas fight yet?
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Daiquiri Dematas » October 7th, 2008, 11:44 am

'Da_MAULER wrote:I'm shocked there hasn't been a Trey vs Dematas fight yet?


I agree with some of what Trey said, so it's all good for now. 8)
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby xxxjboyxxx » October 7th, 2008, 11:57 am

The Shore Division has gotten a little more competitive; even compared to last season. Everyone is trying to step up their A game.

Ball Breakers are worth a watch list.........they are a really good team full of veterans that have been playing together for a long time. I think their 1st mission was to come over to Shore Division and take out Blue Balls.....better luck next time.

But i wouldn't count the Juggernauts and Crazy Kickers out.......they are both hurting and injured this season. But they can put a squad up that could of gone to the FC and have probably done quite well....so hopefuly....they will try and qualify this season to go to the next Founders Cup in 09.

And LDD is a surprise this season.......they recruited some really good people this season. I can't wait to play them.

But once again Shane.....a Poll is only a reasonable outlook on each team. But you did a great job in putting together.

Blue Balls is retooling this season and maybe even next, so hopefully we won't droop out of the list...but with Trey on the lookout....we'll be mentioned somewhere.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby machinegunkelly » October 7th, 2008, 11:59 am

Watch List Honorable Mention: 2009 Boca Meatballs :x ....watch out
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby 'Da_MAULER » October 7th, 2008, 12:02 pm

machinegunkelly wrote:Watch List Honorable Mention: 2009 Boca Meatballs :x ....watch out


Same players?
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby machinegunkelly » October 7th, 2008, 12:03 pm

with a few additions...

'Da_MAULER wrote:
machinegunkelly wrote:Watch List Honorable Mention: 2009 Boca Meatballs :x ....watch out


Same players?
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby 'Da_MAULER » October 7th, 2008, 12:05 pm

Then Shane will probably count both as one team.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Paniky 69er » October 7th, 2008, 12:12 pm

Shane I have no problem with you leaving Shore teams off of this Poll. You prefaced this version with an admittance that this was a post-Vegas snapshot. I have no issue with that. My heads up for the current Shore standings was more for the follow-up poll.

As far as FL teams, I do take issue with so many of them being represented so high post-Vegas. If you're elite prove you're elite. That means advance out of pool play first, and advance far in the elimination round after that. Only one FL team proved to me they were elite. The other FL teams, we're just saying are elite. (And yes, I think Vegas proved that NMY from the TKO was clearly not an even sampling from both YG and StT, and therefore their previous high ranking after that tourney should not be reflected in this poll.)

Also, Dan has kept in touch with WKYB and they are planning to come East for one of the Opens. I think he's trying to convince them to play in the TKO, so you should get a better read on them throughout this year.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Daiquiri Dematas » October 7th, 2008, 12:22 pm

Always Right wrote:Shane I have no problem with you leaving Shore teams off of this Poll. You prefaced this version with an admittance that this was a post-Vegas snapshot. I have no issue with that. My heads up for the current Shore standings was more for the follow-up poll.

As far as FL teams, I do take issue with so many of them being represented so high post-Vegas. If you're elite prove you're elite. That means advance out of pool play first, and advance far in the elimination round after that. Only one FL team proved to me they were elite. The other FL teams, we're just saying are elite. (And yes, I think Vegas proved that NMY from the TKO was clearly not an even sampling from both YG and StT, and therefore their previous high ranking after that tourney should not be reflected in this poll.)

Also, Dan has kept in touch with WKYB and they are planning to come East for one of the Opens. I think he's trying to convince them to play in the TKO, so you should get a better read on them throughout this year.


I believe YG are a legit threat, DWAKP and Screw The Team didn't make it out of pool play, so that speaks for itself.
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby Jimmybeans2 » October 7th, 2008, 12:28 pm

Trey,

you really have no clue what you are talking about. You only respect teams that you think are good. You clearly were a kid who got cut from every high school team.

Young Guns, I believe are a great team. We have proved our selfs against some tough teams. and I do believe alot of teams give us credit. I had about 2-3 KA players come up to me and said we were the best team thay have ever played. Do i agree with that, maybe but that doesn't matter.

Dematas gives us respect because they know if we are on point we are hard to beat.

and alot of people all over kickball love the Young Guns. I think the YG's were the only team that the meatballs were nervous about when they play againts us.

Young Guns are retired anyway...

No, Yes, Butt is a mixture of Screw the Team and YG's

I think I might be on the meatballs team in 2009
Jimmybeans2
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Re: Post-Founders Cup Power Poll (at long last)

Postby machinegunkelly » October 7th, 2008, 12:31 pm

Jimmybeans2 wrote:

meatballs were nervous about when they play againts us.

I think I might be on the meatballs team in 2009



agree


shhh
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“Even though their level of play is tremendous, I was disappointed with their level of sportsmanship.”

“They are the best two-bounce kickball team right now, no question about that."
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machinegunkelly
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